38
a potential suspected mui-tsai. I do not know how many inspectors you will want, but you will require hundreds. I would ask for a division to be taken on this amend-
ment.
HON. MR. CHOW SHOU-SON seconded the amendment and on a division all the Unofficial members voted for the amendment and all the Official members against. The amendment was thus rejected.
HON. MR. POLLOCK moved that clause 6 be transposed so that sub-section 2 became sub-section 1 and vice versa. He thought this a better order.
THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL: I see no objection.
The amendment was agreed to.
HON. MR. POLLOCK: moved that a new clause be inserted after clause 6 to run as follows:-
"In every prosecution for overwork or ill-treatment of a mui-tsai medical evidence shall be given before the Magistrate trying the case as to the injuries received by such mui-tsai, and the magistrate shall find whether such ill-treat- ment amounted in his opinion to gross cruelty or not.
"In the event of such Magistrate finding that such ill-treatment amounts to gross cruelty, the offender shall not be given the option of paying a fine but shall be sentenced by the Magistrate to imprisonment for a term not exceeding one year."
THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL intimated that he had no objection and the new clause was agreed to.
HON. MR. POLLOCK moved a further clause-clause 8-as follows: "The provisions of the Protection of Women and Girls Ordinance, 1897, and of the Offences against the Person Ordinance, 1865, shall, as hitherto, apply to and include mui-tsai.'
H.E. THE GOVERNOR: Is there any objection in that?
HON. MR. POLLOCK: The point is, as I explained in my speech, especially with regard to the first named Ordinance, that it should be fully realised what the pro- visions of that Ordinance are and the heavy punishments, including in some cases the penalty of flogging. I think it is very desirable that that should be widely known and that it certainly does apply to mui-tsai. The Offences against the Person Ordi- nance covers everything from common assault to murder or attempted murder. It is very desirable, when dealing with mui-tsai, to call attention to these measures in an Ordinance which will be translated into Chinese and let people know that there are such laws, and that their provisions are very stringent. It is just a sort of reminder. THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL: I do not see any great objection except that I do not think it is necessary. The same object might be obtained by some form of advertise- ment. It seems rather unnecessary to state that a law-already passed-is in force. H.E. THE GOVERNOR: And it may convey a suggestion that laws not specially mentioned do not apply.
The amendment was carried.
THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL suggested that the earlier Ordinance should be mentioned first.
This was agreed to.
It was agreed to transfer the whole of clause 7 into Part III of the Bill.
HON. MR. POLLOCK: There might seem to be some conflict between clause 12 and clause 2 if we do not substitute the words "any age."
כל
and say "C
any mui-tsai
"
may with
H.E. THE GOVERNOR: Leave out "
any age the sanction of the Secretary for Chinese Affairs.
HON MR. POLLOCK: My reason is this that it would not do for a mui-tsai as it were to walk out of doors without any protection at all. There must be some sanction. ing authority and the proper one would be the Secretary for Chinese Affairs.
39
H.E. THE GOVERNOR: The point is not without difficulty. We have declared that the payment of a sum of money confers no right of property. Now if one of these mui-tsai, being of ripe age, says "I intend to leave my employer and the views
of the Secretary for Chinese Affairs do not interest me," what is to be done?
HON. MR. HOLYOAK: Has any estimate been formed of the increase of Secretarial staff made necessary by the Bill?
H.E. THE GOVERNOR: You may take it that there has been no estimate made by any one in authority.
HON. MR. HOLYOAK: I think we shall have to very materially increase the staff. H.E. THE GOVERNOR: Well, I have my opinion.
HON. MR. POLLOCK: I rather differ from my hon. friend. I think, as a matter of fact, the vast majority of mui-tsai will be content to remain where they are. I appreciate the difficulties pointed out; the only trouble is that there must be some authority.
H.E. THE GOVERNOR: To do what?
HON. MR. POLLOCK: To control in some way.
H.E. THE GOVERNOR: When does a Chinese girl arrive at years of discretion ?— (Laughter).
HON. MR. CHOW SHOU-SON: That is putting a big question. Eighteen years is not the age of discretion; that is the worst age. (Laughter).
H.E. THE GOVERNOR: Do you think the clause would be improved if we substi tuted, say, 21 ? (To. Hon. Mr. Hallifax): Has the matter come before you ?
THE SECRETARY FOR CHINESE AFFAIRS: No, Sir.
HON. MR. POLLOCK: I am quite prepared to leave the words out. It occurs to me that it is a very short general statement of the rights of mui-tsai. Any mui-tsai may leave her employment at any time whatever without payment.
The Committee then discussed transferring various clauses to other parts of the Bill from those in which they appeared. It was agreed that these changes would necessitate reprinting the Bill and at this stage it was decided to adjourn and to resume the Committee stage at the next meeting.
The Council then resumed in order to adjourn its proceedings until 2.30 p.m. on Thursday, February 15th.
(15th February, 1923.)
THE MUI-TSAI QUESTION.
HON. MR. H. E. POLLOCK, K.C., pursuant to private notice given, addressed the following questions to the Secretary for Chinese Affairs :-
1. Is it not the fact that, by Chinese custom, a parent of a mui-tsai who wishes to get her back from her employer, is bound to repay to such employer the sum of money which such employer has paid to such parent for the transfer of such mui-tsai to the employer?
2. Has not such custom been followed by the officials of the Chinese Secretariat
in regard to the redemption of a mui-taai by her parent from her employer?
THE SECRETARY FOR CHINESE AFFAIRS replied as follows:-
(1) According to Chinese custom, it is the usual but not the invariable custom for some repayment to be made.
(2) TheS.C.A. acts solely in the interests of the girl and does not regard himself as being in any way bound by the custom. The practice of the Secretariat for Chinese Affairs is based on section 32 of Ordinance 4 of 1897, and we never lose sight of the fact that the guardianship of any girl for whose transfer money has been paid is vested in the Secretary for Chinese Affairs, against the parents as much as against other parties. In all cases where mui-tsai are concerned, the 5369
B
No comments yet.
Private notes are available after approval.